Feedback from dirigo

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The dirigo episode

October 2, 2003

Today, someone by the name of "Tommy", using the handle "dirigo", sent me some feedback:


I’ve seen your moniker on various message boards and have read a few of your posts. Since you’re definition of a “skeptic” on your web page is to not accept things on faith, but applies a scientific method to all claims. With that being said, you would agree that according to particle physics and relativity, at least 10 dimensions of space existed at the creation of the universe. We are confined to 3 dimensions of space and one dimension of time. (This can be debated if one is tripping on acid.)

How much knowledge of physics do you think the authors of the OT and NT of the Bible had? I would wager none. (Hebrews 11:3 NIV) Suggests that God created the universe out of some of the dimensionalities of space and time not known to us. The Bible also says that God is invisible, which also concludes he isn’t confined to our dimensionalities of space and time. See (Job 9:11, 37:23 and Colossians 1:15 NIV).

Not only space, but also time has a beginning - at the moment of creation. Studies in particle physics have shown that our dimension of time is really only half a dimension, since time can only move forward. If God existed in only one dimension of time, then He would have had to have been created at one point. The Bible says God was not created, but has existed from eternity past to eternity future. The Bible also suggests God created time and was acting before time began. See (2 Timothy 1:9 and Jude 1:25 NIV) this confirming that God exists in at least two dimensions of time. In addition, the Bible states God can compress or expand our time line, based upon what He wants to do. For God to turn a day into 1000 years and 1000 years into a day requires that He exist in at least two dimensions of time. See (2 Peter 3:8 NIV).

You may search www.godandscience.org for additional reference material. Granted it’s a bias toward God and His existence, but this should be down your alley, since they use “scientific methods” to back their claims. Look forward to hearing from ya.

Tommy

I replied like so:

Hi Tommy.

I showed your email to a friend of mine. His response was concise and quite good:

Argument from Sematics

1. The Bible says God can do things we have scientific words for.
2. Anything that uses scientific words is scientific.
3. God is scientific. (from 1 and 2)

My reply is a bit longer, but similar, as follows:

Hebrews 11:3 simply claims that God made stuff that can be seen without using stuff than can be seen. It's not saying that God made the visible out of the invisible; it's simply saying that God did not make visible stuff out of visible stuff. I see no reason to conclude that that's saying something about extra dimensions. Rather, it sounds like standard ex nihilo creationism to me (i.e. magic).

Job 9:11
When he passes me, I cannot see him;
when he goes by, I cannot perceive him.

God can do magic, just like the heroes of other myths.

Job 37:23
The Almighty is beyond our reach and exalted in power;
in his justice and great righteousness, he does not oppress.

God is so powerful that we can't get at him.

Col 1:15
He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Jesus is the visible expression of the invisible God.

I don't see that this is any different from the magical claims other religions and mythologies make about their gods and demons and such. All in all, you are just trying to make the magical claims of the Bible sound like advanced theoretical physics when, if those claims are read in context, there is no reason to cast them in that light.

There is a thread about your argument here: http://www.graveyardofthegods.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1268

sincerely
Brad Reddekopp


Dirigo entered the discussion at GOTG. Unfortunately, he didn't seem to know a lot about logical fallacies and he didn't seem to be very interested in learning about how such things damaged his argument. You can read the exchanges here: http://www.graveyardofthegods.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1268





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