Feedback from evangelist Rocco Badenhorst
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The Saga of Brad and Rocco: a busy Christian evangelist takes time out from his ministry to send me email.
August 30, 2002

Today, I received the following email from one "Dr. Rocco T. Badenhorst" of integrity-ministries.org. I don't recall having heard of him before. Here is what he wrote:


Hello,

The Bible says “A fool says in his heart that there is no GOD” so I guess you are that fool, if you do not believe in GOD. Man wake up before it is to late, you have nothing to lose by believing, but everything to lose by not believing. I suppose you are a gambler because the biggest gamble one can do is to gamble with his own life.

You will not experience the complete JOY in CHRIST until you say to HIM prove yourself to me and I will believe, in you and serve you, He loves you enough to just possibly break through your thick head and radically change you by taking up that challenge.

JESUS LOVES YOU EVEN THOU YOU DENY HIM.

Rocco

Here's my reply to Dr. Rocco:

Hello Rocco

You said:

The Bible says “A fool says in his heart that there is no GOD” so I guess you are that fool, if you do not believe in GOD.

My my. You've only begun and you're already resorted to ad hominem. There's sure nothing like that good old Christian love!

Man wake up before it is to late,

I did wake up. That's why I don't believe in God, especially not in the Christian God.

you have nothing to lose by believing,

I have nothing to lose but my integrity, my sanity and my self-respect. It would drive me crazy to pretend to believe in something so obviously silly. I hate to tell lies and I would definitely have to lie in order to go back to confessing Jesus as Lord and Savior. If I willingly turned myself into a lying lunatic, do you think I could then respect myself?

but everything to lose by not believing.

I know what I've lost by stopping trying to believe in God. I've lost that nagging sense that I'd bought a suspension bridge, site unseen. I've lost the cognitive dissonance that was grinding away in my head. I've lost the guilt and shame that comes from trying to believe in something that, deep down, I do not believe at all. In my view, Christianity is too unbelievable to be taken seriously.

I'm sure that you think I've lost eternal life. I assure that if I honestly thought for a moment that you were correct, I would never have abandoned my belief in God in the first place.

I suppose you are a gambler because the

Unless you count buying a lottery ticket every couple of months, no, I'm not a gambler.

You will not experience the complete JOY in CHRIST until you say to HIM prove yourself to me and I will believe, in you and serve you,

Rocco, you incorrectly assume that I have not been down that road. I have been and it doesn't go anywhere.

He loves you enough to just possibly break through your thick head

There's that loving Christian ad hominem again.

and radically change you by taking up that challenge.

Yes, insanity and chronic dishonesty would be quite a change indeed. No thanks.

JESUS LOVES YOU EVEN THOU YOU DENY HIM.

Jesus is dead, Rocco. It's been two thousand years. He's not coming back. Get over it.

By the way, I will be posting a copy of your email, along with my reply, on my web site at http://www.NoDeity.com (in the "Feedback and Oddities" section) and on the Atheist Network message board at http://bbs.atheistnetwork.com (in the "Atheist vs. Theist") forum.

Brad
August 31, 2002

Doctor Rocco responded to me thusly:


The only thing you are correct about is my unloving attitude in calling you what the Bible calls you, " A Fool" but for the rest of your letter trying so hard to convince yourself that there is no GOD, I would say Brad it really takes much more faith to believe the way you do then in a LOVING GOD who has created the universe and all that is in it. I will not continue to write to you as you apparently made up your mind to be stubborn about your unbelief, even though deep inside your heart you have a deep longing and an emptiness for reality, I am not fooled by what you say.

I will however remember to pry for a fellow called Brad.
I don't hate you gut feel very sorry for you.

IN JESUS SERVICE.

Rocco Badenhorst
Integrity Ministries

Well, it's a relief to know that he doesn't hate me! Here's my reply to that one:


Hello Rocco

ou said:
trying so hard to convince yourself that there is no GOD, I would say Brad it really takes much more faith to believe the way you do then in a LOVING GOD who has created the universe and all that is in it.

There's something that you do not understand and I sincerely want you to understand it. It is this, that it does not take any faith at all to not have a belief in a being whose existence cannot be verified.

If I were to ask you to present me with verifiable evidence for the existence of God, I expect that you, like everyone else who has tried, would fail to produce any such evidence. Consequently, I would not be convinced that your claim, that God is real, is true.

Is that clear to you? Do you understand that to not be convinced of a claim because of a lack of evidence for that claim does not take faith?

You said:
I will not continue to write to you as you apparently made up your mind to be stubborn about your unbelief

If you mean that I will not be swayed by empty assertions and appeals to emotion, you are correct.

even though deep inside your heart you have a deep longing and an emptiness for reality, I am not fooled by what you say.

I am always astounded at the arrogance of religionists who claim to be able to read my mind. I do not believe that you are psychic, Rocco.

I will however remember to pry for a fellow called Brad.

If you choose to waste your time praying for me, that is up to you.

I don't hate you gut feel very sorry for you.

I don't hate you either, Rocco. I hope that you will one day be able to free yourself from the superstitions that have you bound. Brad

September 1, 2002

Doctor Rocco sent me another one this morning:


Brad,

We seem to be going nowhere with our discussion, so I will write this one more e-mail to you, before I go on a 2 week missions trip to tell the pagans and the unbelievers in Africa about the very BEST NEWS EVER PROCLAIMED, JESUS IS ALIVE AND VERY REAL AND INTERESTED IN SAVING THOSE WHO PUT THEIR TRUST IN HIM. I think we here in the USA have become worse then the guys from dark Africa with our Stubborn unbelief, who we are only fooling ourselves with. Let me tell you there is no real atheist, put an atheist on his death bed with seconds before he is plunged into eternity, and he will call out to the LORD for mercy, the dying moments of a man quickly dissolves his foolish heart.

I will give you 3 quick proves of the existence of God, and then I will refer you to a converted agnostic's website so if you are wanting to prove your point of view, you may see how unfounded your views are. His web site is called

http://www.josh.org/

http://www2.oneplace.com/Ministries/Josh_McDowell_Radio/

Prove one.

I as a pastor do not lie and hate lies with a passion, so here is the true story about God's existence.

I know of a man that developed cancer and it spread throughout his body, and was to far gone for any doctors to help in any way, he had only hours to live in intensive care. Now this same man doctors gave up as a hopeless case was anointed with oil and prayed over in the name of JESUS, well he walked out the hospital with no sign of cancer, can you honestly refute this miracle and call it chance or co-incidence, I don't think so, I don't think you are so stupid.

Prove two

Take a piece of paper and draw a circle on it and put all your knowledge past present and future, plus everyone else's in it. Now what makes you think that God cannot exist out side your circle of knowledge.

Prove three

I can say what I will to you and you have made up your mind to reject truth, but one thing you cannot do is deny the life changing power that I experienced through Christ, His presence and Joy and daily miracles in my life.

Try him and I assure you He will not disappoint you. You can become a Paul who defends the Gospel instead of a Saul who persecute the Christians.

There is only ONE HOPE FOR AMERICA HIS NAME IS JESUS OR MARK MY WORDS WE WILL SEE MANY MORE 9/11's

God is not mocked, what a man sows he will also reap. I will be available until the 3rd of September if you want to comment on this true letter.

IN HIS WONDERFUL SERVICE,
Rocco Badenhorst Pastor

. . . and I said . . .

Hello Rocco

We seem to be going nowhere with our discussion, so I will write this one more e-mail to you, Suit yourself. Keep in mind that it was you who chose to contact me. I'm willing to continue to correct your misconceptions for as long as you keep responding.

before I go on a 2 week missions trip to tell the pagans and the unbelievers in Africa about

I think that is a shamefully arrogant thing to do. It is ridiculous for Christians to think that their silly god myth is superior to all the other silly god myths.

Let me tell you there is no real atheist,put

This too seems arrogant. You cannot back up your claims with facts and yet you present them as though they were unassailable truths. Do you really expect me to be convinced of these things just because you say they are so?

an atheist on his death bed with seconds before he is plunged into eternity, and he will call out to the LORD for mercy,

I can provide you with accounts of atheists who have faced impending death without succumbing to the baseless fears of the religionists. Would you like me to give you some information about that? Here's one example to get you started: http://canada.humanists.net/buckman.ram

I will refer you to a converted agnostic's website

Josh McDowell? His arguments have been considered and dismissed. Some of the intelligent Christian apologists I've encountered have seemed to be embarrassed by the likes of Josh McDowell. You've got to do better than that.

I know of a man that developed cancer and it spread throughout his body, and was to far

I'd need to see a scientific evaluation of the case before I'd agree that something unexplainable had happened. Anecdotal evidence, especially from a biased source, is an extremely poor kind of evidence.

Take a piece of paper and draw a circle on it and put all your knowledge past present and future, plus everyone else's in it. Now what makes you think that God cannot exist out side your circle of knowledge.

It's possible that a god-like being could exist in some time and place without my being aware of it. It's also possible that pink unicorns have existed in some time and place. The possibility that something could exist is not evidence that it does exist.

but one thing you cannot do is deny the life changing power that I experienced through Christ, His presence and Joy and daily miracles in my life.

I cannot deny the strength of your desire to believe and your capacity to convince yourself that these comforting fantasies are true.

Rocco, I am not an atheist because I don't want to believe in God and the eternal life that your beliefs promise. I'd love to think that there is more to my existence than this blink of an eye. No, I am an atheist because, when I examine the best evidence available to me, I am left to conclude that there is no really good reason to think that God or gods exist.

Try him and I assure you He will not disappoint you.

I already did that, Rocco. I gave Jesus a few decades worth of trying. What a waste of time. I was, in fact, disappointed.

There is only ONE HOPE FOR AMERICA HIS NAME IS JESUS OR MARK MY WORDS WE WILL SEE MANY MORE 9/11's

It is ironic that you blame 9/11 on unbelievers when it was a religiously-motivated attrocity, committed by people who believe in the God of Abraham, just as you do.

God is not mocked,

You are incorrect. I mock God frequently.

what a man sows he will also reap.

I sow reason. I sow critical thought. I sow human love, respect and compassion, free of the taint of religion.

Brad

September 1, 2002

Wow. Two in one day. I received this this evening:


Good Bye,
You are sincerely deceived, and I will pray for your soul, I quote the Bible "Do not cast your pearls before swine to be trampled under foot" I am sure you know what this means, if not it means don't share the precious gospel message with unbelievers, as they will trample it under foot.

I am signing off now, as you are more deceived then anyone I ever met, having spend a few decades serving Jesus and turning away from HIM shame on you, you should hide your face in shame for rejecting SUCH A GREAT SALVATION THROUGH HIS BLOOD, Brad don't keep on rejecting the conviction of the Holy-Spirit Just now it will be too late.
Please do not write again.

IN HIS SERVICE.

Rocco Badenhorst
Integrity Ministries

And thus ends the saga of Brad and Rocco . . . unless he changes his mind again about replying.



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